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Confederate Flag!
June 24, 2015
4:00 pm
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greeney2
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Since last weeks mass murder of 9 people in a church by a racist screwball, debates have gone from gun control from the President, to mental health issues, to the Confederate flag.  South Carolina said it will no longer fly that flag at government buildings, but in the same statement acknowleged it had historical meaning to many, saying it was alright to fly the flag on your property.  Retailers all over the nation are now pulling sales, not forgetting you could buy it anytime from Walmart, Amazon.com, and a long list of giant retailers.  I live in California where the flag has no meaning to me, so no skin off my nose if they abolish it completly.  If you live in the south, it has a meaning (whatever that is) a heritage of the civil war.  Is it racism or just history to fly it?  To 99% nobody is thinking racist things when you see it. It is just part of the south.  Whats your opinion?  

June 25, 2015
1:01 am
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Dragoness
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Being from the South, and yes though I had ancestors that fought for the Confederacy, the flag has really no meaning to me. I consider it part of the past, so it matters little. My flag is the American flag.

I can see not flying on government land, but I think the whole argument is more about how we can blame the "evil" republicans for this next election cycle.

It saddens me that whole argument about the flag overshadows the death of these 9 people.

June 25, 2015
2:26 am
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Aquatank
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I'm not from the south but my ancestors were on both sides of the war.  The flag debate arises every few years but the simplest argument is correct; The Stars & Bars is a symbol of the Confederate States of America, it represents a groups of states that committed Treason against the United States of America  (US Constitution Article III, Section 3: "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.") when the started the war by opening fire on US Military installations and US troops, that is the very definition of levying war against the United States.  Thusly the Stars and Bars Flag, Statues honoring CSA troops and their leaders, as well as paintings in public buildings also paying homage to them is honoring traitors to the USA by definition.  It is directly akin honoring Benedict Arnold and Timothy McVeigh and their treasonous actions by publically displaying such symbolism.  While many of us had family members who fought, murdered, and died in that war we must remember that the war was fought over the CSA alleged rights to maintain Slavery and Bigotry against all dispute and repudiation and interference, the CSA LOST and Justifiably so, good won over evil, and when some one raise the Stars or Bars or places CSA statues in their town square they are effectively saying "We support the traitors and their ideals."

The Stars and Bars flag may have no meaning to many Americans that is true, but it does have meaning to two groups the first are those people whose ancestral families suffered under the yoke of slavery that the CSA fought to maintain, to wave that symbol in their presence is to say "you deserve to be a slave, you are sub human, you are rightfully property to be disposed of as your owners and white folk will."  The second group is the racists bigots who raise that flag to directly say that in the first groups face.  Everyone else who flies that flag and doesn't realize the offensive rudeness and treason doing so symbolizes needs to get a clue.  Yes we have 1st Amendment Rights to Free Speech but the individual exercising the free speech needs to understand that being rude and offensive is still rude and offensive and people don't take kindly to such inconsiderate uncouth  display.  Fly the Stars and Bars and people know two things the person flying supports traitors and is most likely a racist bigot.  If one wants to honor their CSA dead do it without honoring their evil ideals "Rest in Peace great great grandfather, may god have mercy on you and may your evil never spread or rise again."

June 30, 2015
2:36 am
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Cole_Trickle
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 The flag is a symbol of pride and has nothing to do with race, just like the civil war had nothing to do with slavery. This always confounds me, why so many people have so little knowledge of history.

 People should educate themselves about this so they can carry on an intelligent conversation. The Confederate flag was a symbol of those fighting for their rights while, the stars and strips, was the same for the Union. Only the Union was the Government and the Governments goal was to Unionize the country thus eliminating state powers...most understood by reading the 14th amendment.

 Race has never had anything to do with a piece of cloth flapping in the breeze.

 

 Cole

June 30, 2015
4:04 am
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Wing-Zero
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The Confederate battle flag was specifically flown as an open opposition to the Civil Rights Movement in the South during the 1950s.

 

http://www.npr.org/sections/it.....erate-flag

 

"It was also the symbol of the States' Rights Democratic Party, or "Dixiecrats," that formed in 1948 to oppose civil-rights platforms of the Democratic Party. Then-South Carolina Gov. Strom Thurmond was the splinter group's nominee for president that same year; he won 39 electoral votes."

 

It has no place flying over government buildings. Barring that, I couldn't care less what people do with it privately.

War is an extension of economics and diplomacy through other means.

Economics and diplomacy are methods of securing resources used by humans.

Securing resources is the one necessary behavior for all living things.

War = Life

July 1, 2015
8:08 pm
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greeney2
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Probably not an American alive,  who does not believe the Civil war had nothing to do with slavery.  It was the primary issue, and the slave states wanting to suceed from the Union.  

July 2, 2015
11:29 pm
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Wing-Zero
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greeney2 said
Probably not an American alive,  who does not believe the Civil war had nothing to do with slavery.  It was the primary issue, and the slave states wanting to suceed from the Union.  

You should read some of the posts on various news sites. Gives me gastral pains.

War is an extension of economics and diplomacy through other means.

Economics and diplomacy are methods of securing resources used by humans.

Securing resources is the one necessary behavior for all living things.

War = Life

July 6, 2015
6:23 pm
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gleebo
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Never cared for the flag but have always loved the First Amendment.  Looks like both are on their way out.Confused

July 7, 2015
3:49 pm
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Aquatank
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I don't think the 1st Amendment is in danger from this particular issue, as it is not the government acting to infringe the right to free speech as it is society as a whole rejecting the content of a particular speech.  The 1st Amendment guarantees a private citizen can legally be an A-hole and fly whatever flag they want, it does not guarantee people will not be offended, speak out in opposition against the contents a person's/group's speech, or put pressure on that person or group to behave within social norms.  In fact the 1st Amendment also guarantees such opposition can and will occur legally.

On the level of a State removing the Stars and Bars from as its flag, this is not a matter of free speech this is matter of official legislative or administrative policy, much like freedom of religion does not allow the state to favor and make a religion the state religion, it does not allow one party's/group's ideology to dominate, especially where as that group was traitorous to the nation.  In the case of South Carolina, prior to the civil war its flag was just a moon with a palmetto tree on a blue background.  Thusly the 1861 adoption of the Stars and Bars was specifically meant as opposition to the nation of the USA and later as a contentious insult when it was not withdrawn to people of color and to Civil Rights as well.

The main battle over this seem to be currently the TV show Dukes of Hazard in which the moonshiner "Heroes" fly the Stars and Bars and the bad guys fly it as well as part of the pre-2001 Georgia state flag (Hazard Co. is in Georgia.).  This had two effect it confused the symbolism of the flag, and two led to fans ignorant & confused of the flags meaning flying the Stars and Bars and now defending it.  If anything the Duke boy's car should have been flying the Sons of Liberty Flag and named the Sam Adams or as a real insult to Boss Hogg flying the Stars and Stripes and named the General Meade. So bad guys and good guys could be fairly be told apart symbolically. As for pulling the show, I disagree with doing that, I think it should have just been permanent viewer advisory's addressing the Stars and Bars as unintentional insult and what it really symbolizies racism and slavery which the network is firmly opposed to.  The Rightwing moves against Hogan's Heroes is erroneous because the show lampoons  and demonizes the one bad guys who fly the swastika with clear distinction between Good Guy POW's and the bad guy Nazis as a result.

July 7, 2015
5:40 pm
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roman_campbell
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I feel like the flag debate is more than a distraction. Now that the lights have been shown on history, people are discovering that the cross of St. Andrew was the inspiration of the flag. They are realizing that the majority of the people who fought under that flag did not own slaves. The majority of the north retained their slaves after the war. The south left the union because of northern unconstitutional threats. The Christians of the south took up General Lee's flag because of his stance to up hold the constitution and fight tyranny. A greater understanding of history is now available for the general public which I think is fantastic. I also think that this result was the opposite reaction to the establishment's push to re-write history. 

The worst part about this whole situation is that people have decided that the American flag is worse than the battle flag because it has had more slaves under it and they want it changed to a rainbow hybrid flag...which I feel would make us look foolish in the global scheme of things. Same goes with the taking down of the ten commandments and crosses. They claim that it was separation of church and state when there are various gods and goddesses all throughout government buildings and monuments. Personally, I feel that these issues are related to an end goal of taking away the American Christian foundation in order for the nation as a whole to blend smoothly into a global government with a nation of people who only believe in the latest trend. 

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