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Arcologies NOW!
June 21, 2015
2:49 pm
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Aquatank
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PER AUDACIA AD ASTRA, AD INFINITUM ET ULTRA (THROUGH BOLDNESS TO THE STARS, TO INFINITY, AND BEYOND) ARCO I-80: I imagine most people I talk to about this suddenly have glaze over their eyes and just start nodding like they are on a boring date that they cannot understand what the other person is really talking about just parroting a few words back occasionally. Humanity missed its opportunities to create the polluted world we live in: In 1828 the first electric car was invented by Anyos Jednik, in 1878 Augustin Mouchet displayed a parabolic mirror that turned solar energy into mechanical power that powered a refrigerator solar power had been born, by 1884 the electric car was in production, and in 1899 90% of New York city's taxis were electric, then in 1912 the first Lithium batteries were tested, then in 1931 Nikola Tesla wrote an article in Everyday Science called "Our Future Motive Power" which was the basis for Enhanced Geothermal Energy. By 1930 the electric car had died in favor of fossil fuel vehicles, and EGS wouldn't even be tried until the 2000 while Lithium batteries waited until the 1970s to be made commercially and not in cars until the mid 1990s and later, parabolic solar was destroyed by World War I, and humanity missed far too good opportunities. However I believe humanity can re-acquire those opportunities and thusly I dream of better tomorrows and I'm quite serious about them, and I am actually surprised humanity has not really jumped forward on to these yet. So for awhile I've been realizing that the real solution for many of Humanity's problems is not just social-economic-govt. structure but actual physical structure. Socially speaking communities need to be far more integrated among the various groups, and the inherent racism of immigration laws needs to be removed. There are no immigration laws between states and provinces and it benefits them to a high degree so realistically there shouldn't be immigration laws between nations. Furthermore nations and communities should have democracy in society, business, and government. We Humans cannot let resources get bottlenecked and hoarded in such a matter that it creates undue power and wealth, blocking such circulation is akin to causing a major blood clot that kills the organism. Incomes must have ceilings at somewhere be it 3x 5x 10x or 20x the minimum necessary wage with increasing taxation to 100%. Needs should be managed and built by government companies where the community, state, or nation should have control over its major resources (including banks/money) and their distribution, and wants should be built by private companies that are worker owned and operated democratically. . However, I also feel for safety (pests, blights, etc) reasons that individual households should grow most of their food in household in a cellular way, although I feel large scale operations can also help, especially for plants that grow too big for household growing. Thusly we move the discussion forward from business and social into the physical where a public & grassroots movement is necessary to build the new infrastructure and urban planning that the world needs most in my opinion: the Arcology. Imagine never having to deal with the issues of getting to work in snowmageddon or down pours.

Basically I have been looking at Interstate Route I-80 with a bit of hunger, and perhaps even I-75 as a south route. The reason I am looking at these interstates is that they are major continent crossing pieces of Infrastructure that are already built and thusly materials and people can be moved to them and along them quickly and efficiently. I-80 is a favorite because it goes to both coasts and has close access to the Great Lakes for sea transport. Thusly what I'm talking about is what is called a long linear arcology or arterial arcology, which I envision as a series of linear arcologies punctuated by EPCOT style hubs where train intersections meet and serve as hubs for fast trains. In my concept there are 5 trains, Wedway People Movers inside each module, slow trains for nearby intermodule transport, fast trains that only stop at the hubs, intermodule slow freight, and inter hub fast freight. I'm pretty sure the entire operation can be powered by alternative energies. I call it ARCO I-80. The basic idea using the Shimizu TRY 2004 Mega Pyramid as a basic size estimation we have a 3.1 square mile floor meaning a side length of 1.76 miles, the pyramid would have a population of 1 Million People. Thusly if we divide the US Population by them we'd need 317 of these. 317 x 1.76=557.92 Miles. The length of I-80 is roughly 2899 miles long thusly lengthening the arcology out a little isn't a big problem. I However think it it is easier and more economical to build an Earthscraper/Groundscraper and go a little wider. The best Arcology designs involves hydroponics. Using 40m2 of Hydroponics can produce 1500 Calories of food a day about for 1 person, so a family of 4 needs 160 square meters (@1723 sq feet.) So let’s say a typical family of four fits in a 800 sq ft. house comfortably. So we'd need a minimum of 2523 sq feet divided. About the area of ten ISO shipping containers/Tractor Trailers. The best option for power is Enhanced Geothermal Energy which would provided about 30000 Years worth of alternative pollution free energy. A recent geothermal Power plant example has 140 MW meaning it can power 22960 homes. The cost of the plant was $126,500,000. If each Arcology Module/City had 5000 Homes (20000 People) such a module would power at least 4 Modules/Cities power for 80000 people. The USA has a Population of 318860000 meaning meaning the entire National Arcology would require 3986 power plants to power the all the homes in the USA. A cost of about $505.23 Billion ($504,229,000,000)

Let's assume somebody, an architectural engineer, can come up with a better lay out me and can come up with a better design. As pointed out for our basic sq footage for each four person home is 2523 sq ft. The Vermeer BP715 pumps out 1600 blocks in a 8 hour work day. An 8ft tall wall and 30 ft (240 sq ft) long requires 92 blocks. So if we constructed a 30x30 wall it would have 900sqft inside and require 368 blocks. So let’s get a rough idea of what we need. 2523 sq ft. divided by 900 equals 2.803 repeating let's call it 2.804 we multiply this times 368 blocks meaning we get a nice 1031.87 blocks needed call 1032 blocks. We are well within the 1600 block range. And have enough left over for an additional six 300 ft long walls if necessary. Note: this will require a floor and roof which may require other materials, or extra time, or extra presses. So let’s say we go with 2 extra presses to do that. This press costs $17000 (basically I've seen others cheaper about $9000 but that company was destroyed by fire). So three of them is a cost of $51000. Now let's start thinking big. A shipping container module is 20000 people and thusly 5000 housing units. I've been partial to Groundscrapers/ Earthscrapers lately and have a thing for hexagons. Now the first thing to take into account is CEB shouldn't be built more than 2 stories tall so what we are looking at is terraced pit, and for ease of size and overcoming access difficulties each unit will be one story tall 35ft wide x 80ft long x 12 tall. 5000 housing units divided by six sides equals 833.3 repeating let's call it 834 per side, let’s assume we want to get the entire Arco module built by the end of summer approximately 94 days that means we to build 9 houses per day per side that’s a total of 27 presses at a cost of $459,000. Okay the press uses approximately 3 gallons of diesel per machine per workday we multiply 3 gallons times 27 presses and get 81 gallons a day multiplied by 94 days and we get 7614 gallons of diesel. Currently Feb 18 2015 diesel in this area is around $3 a gallon or less. So that's a total fuel cost of around $22842. Combined with CEB Presses we are looking at a base cost of housing at $481,842. So the cost to each citizen (as if all just roomies) is $24.10. For two working parents with two children the cost is $48.20for a single parent its $96.37. Mind you that is up front material costs not land costs or the amount of time each person is going to have to spend building things that's 94 days of volunteer labor building you and your neighbor's houses. 

Using these three basic pieces knowledge we can design cities/modules to meet Humanity's needs around them/  By utilizing Compressed Earth Blocks and Ferrock we lower the costs of building the Arcology substantially while creating less carbon dioxide and pollutants in creation and absorbing carbon dioxide afterwards.

I envision Arco I-80 City Modules being connected by Tubular railways, and in Module transport being provided by WEDWay People Movers eliminating the need for automobiles and trucks except for few electric runabouts needed to move furniture.  I think there should be larger hubs and ports perhaps as many 100000 people living in them that are reached via HyperLoop all over the nation and world, and because that system exists we no longer need jetliners and the only air transport will be hybrid airships servicing unconnected arcolgies.  I think that 3D printing on demand should replace mass production and its associated wastes in the Arcology, and that most products will be designed on computer and then the programmed licensed out for the actual printing, thusly Computer Aided Design, Art and Science become the standard scholastic majors.

By planning a properly integrated & mixed populace into the Arcologies' housing distribution and ridding ourselves of our current social economic class and race hierarchy we create an environment which helps form the end of racism and promote real toleration and acceptance allowing the populaces to move forward and united into a better tomorrow.

If Humankind starts building these we have a much better chance of surviving the 6th Great Exctinction and repairing some of the damage we have caused. At the very least we need to build 1-4 of the modules to ensure a viable breeding population.

The problem is getting people actually build them, even though the funding is available. Currently I am estimating PACs and wealthy individuals will throw away some $1.3 Billion Dollars funding parties in the 2016 Presidential Elections.  Let's say they used Compressed Earth Blocks That's enough to build 22 Arcology Modules.  Just this past weekend we saw Jurassic World alone rake in $500 Million Dollars, that's probably good enough for almost what 8 to 10 Modules and it has not even finished its run.  Then of course if we had the government do by say slashing its military budget down and investing $300 Billion a Year the USA would be finished building the national Arcology on I-80 within 64 years.

July 20, 2015
1:53 pm
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WARNING ARCOLOGY STUFF: This Concerns Masdar City one of the few Arcology style Cities being built, and what it would take to do this in the USA. No matter the costs the necessity of Arcology to preserve our species and protect our planet is of utmost import, and in the end its much less costly than war and the alternatives. Masdar City is one of the few Arcology style cities being built, and its going the more expensive route, then the aforementioned CEB the cost is $22 Billion Dollars and it takes up 6 km2 and have a population of 50000 however it does not have any food production space. Utilizing this style The USA would require 6378 of these (current population 318800000). At 2.44km wide 2 on boths side of I-80 (4 total) would create a wall of city along the entire route. This would be for a cost of 140.4 Trillion dollars. As noted this plan does not have any Hydroponic space and would require an 8.001 additional 51031 km2 that's 8.001 km2   per Masadr City or 32.004 km2   per 4 city section, thusly requiring an additional 5.68km to the north south distance so the total north south distance becomes 15.44 unless the hydroponics are made to be vertical buildings which probably best. The Masadr City Plan also does not include Hyper loop, or Tubular Rail, Monorails, or WEDway Peoplemovers, it does have underground driverless pod cars, and an electric bus system, thusly the cost increases

 

July 23, 2015
3:39 pm
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IF XSeed 4000 could be built (and I have heard graphene production has made leaps of recently which makes me think it is possible.) it would house 1 Million inhabitants so if Arco I-80 was composed of these it would require 319 of these towers, with a foot print of 6km2 its would also have a 2.44km base but would only take up 778.36km of route I-80. If 8000 of these could be built they could hold the entire current Human population of the Earth along 19520km of roadway. (( I-80 is 4,666 km, I-75 is 2,875, I-5 is 2,222, I-57 is 621 km, I-55 is 338 km, US Route 66 is 3,945 km, US Route 6 is 5,148 km for a total of 19815 km)) Everyone could easily fit in the USA and the rest of the planet could become a nature preserve. Imagine the energy savings & efficiency of closing the distances and elimniating nations as we know them to be replaced by a global resource based economy.

http://inhabitat.com/self-cont.....seed-4000/

PER AUDACIA AD ASTRA, AD INFINITIUM ET ULTRA.

July 23, 2015
6:31 pm
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Not everyone out here wants to be herded into cities and pre planned temples to humanity. They have little use for humanity and want to be left alone to live their lives as they see fit.

They do not think much of cities or herds of people or public transpotation and find them a huge liability.

They also do not want to get up every morning and consume their day with thoughts of guilt as to whether someone is of a particular race..or gendered or gay or straight or whatever is the next changing wind to which they are expected to default...or feel guilty about...allow to default through at their expense.

They believe in individuality ..not diversity. Freedom and liberty not herd mentality. They also believe in individual responsibility not herd mentality  with many riding for free at the expense of others.

They have little use or respect for what tries to pass as leadership today....or tomorrow.

 

Thanks,

Orangetom

July 26, 2015
2:54 am
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I wouldn't consider this herding or force immigration.  The way I see it the only way this nation will ever start building Arcos is voluntarily, our political establishment is too busy waging unnecessary wars, short sighted and weak to actually use tax payer money on such major undertaking that would actually benefit 100% of the population.  So herding is the wrong word.

here's how it works, Some one builds one just one that has population of 20000 and the nation world will sit up and take notice, the greener, more efficient, and likeable it is the more that lifestyle becomes DESIRED. That desire turns into demand and that demand creates the industry for more Arcos to be constructed, as more are constructed people on the outside see the are not living to the fullest of their potential outside and demand increases.  Building the first successful Arcos starts a gold rush, for Americans even more so because so many of us are living below or just above the poverty line in a nation where everyone wants to be better off.  Arcos are way of giving them a way to be better off in ways that just are not possible or far too expensive living on the outside.  The truth is most people do not like to be alone, they go out of their way to be with other people on a regular basis, they gravitate towards creating large groups of likeminded individuals and thusly communities.  When one adds all the benefits of the Arco to this, the only thing holding them back from living in Arcos is the lack of their physical reality. I would guestimate that if Arco I-80 was built fast enough it would fill with 10 Million inhabitants a year, and would eventually contain 80% of all Americans (in about 22 Years) with 20% or less wanting to remain outside and less staying outside each succeeding generation.  See a successful arcology is more than a mega structure it is an ecological system and its inhabitants benefit from that ecology in health, social connectivity, education, transportation, arts, costs, and all around efficiency.  People will find it desirable to live in one and will want their children to live in one too.  If I tell some one s/he can buy a used house that is 100 years old and needs repair for $250,000 or can get a new place for $40,000 in the arco with all its benefits and no more snowmageddon etc. to deal with that person is going likely going to gravitate to the arco. So the phrase "herding" just does not work. 

What is going on currently is not plan A=Arcology (Efficient Low Cost) Advance our future but plan B=Buoyancy (Moderately Efficient Moderate Cost) try to stay afloat with moderate changes VERSUS plan C=Continue (Inefficient High Cost). with path to destruction.  Most of my life & most of history we have lived with plan C, it's time to get smart.  Plan B should only be used as a transition not an end in and of itself.

July 28, 2015
4:38 pm
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Aquatank,

This stuff looks very good on paper but it has been tried before. Albeit in different times and in different ways but it has been tried before to bring up the standards of living of those at or below the poverty levels.

This is the source of much of todays subsidized housing ...or what is also and sometimes called "The Projects."

 

What we have about this city which is of this caliber in private hands, the average working class persons cannot afford to live in them. They are also having their grass cut by the city at the expense of the average working class taxes of people who cannot afford to live there. I know this because my sister works for the city in parks and maintenance where they cut the grass.

 

What  I also know from women who are apartment managers...and their owners have told them after meetings with HUD in Washington DC...is that these projects in many cities are slated to be torn down...if not already being so done. What the plan is is to move these people into subsidized housing in the uptown urban suburbs..not to build new "Projects."

What has in fact happened in this city as well as other cities is that the downtown problems have only migrated to these new suburbs. And it is becoming a unsafe place to live verses some 20/25 years ago when it was more stable.

Your utopia will be turned into another Utopian Project. It is the caliber of the people moving into them which makes the difference..not the environment. This is where Government and social engineers make their huge mistake.

 

THe woman I am seeing is an apartment manager in one of these crime ridden neighborhoods. She also has Muslims living in her apartments from Afghanistan. She has asked them if they are afraid of these gangbangers who prey and prowl the neighborhoods and apartments.

They tell her...No...they are not Taliban. Understand now??? Think it through further than utopia and utopian dreams.

 

This what you propose is just a fancy selling point for another "Project."

You can find them all over China and the former Soviet Union..and in Europe as well.

They are falling down into a state of disrepair.

 

Thanks,

Orangetom

July 31, 2015
2:14 pm
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Actually we cannot factually say its been tried and failed. Arcosanti has never been finished or even reached its primary population level, and Masdar City is still very much under construction.

We must remember that Arcology is a combination architecture and ecology not just how a society functions within it.  Without the physical construct we do not have the environmental variables that affect how society functions with in, what we have instead is a history of social problems within a non-Arcology environment.

When we look at and scientifically critique what has worked and what has not worked, what we find is that social democratic governments with mixed economies work best for the population until they are undermined self serving individuals and small groups of this type of individual intent on accumulating wealth and power.  This undermining is readily apparent in the USA where while it has a democratic republic structure n government it lacks that structure in business. Thusly we have  a disconnect of democracy in government in theory but a totalitarian hierarchy in everyday life that puts its adherents in government, this leads to increasing social, economic, and justice inequality which almost always destabilizes the nation state and can lead to violent civil unrest and internal war.  Nation states that put limits on the on the accumulation of wealth and power and maintain a higher level of democracy have a far better track record.

Thusly an Arcology creates an environment where IF it well regulated and planned on social democratic principles where there is democracy not only in government but also in the workplace it increases its survival odds as well increases odd of keeping its population content and happy.  However if an Arcology should fall to totalitarianism we will see similar destabilization that we have today.  Depending on how the actual Arcology building structural construct is setup however the building itself may create stability by providing less chokepoints for totalitarians to exploit. Example if everyone's housing apartment has its own growing beds and water/sewage recycling unit it removes those resources as chokepoints.  If all the housing is on the outer wall of the arcology providing 100% solar power for each housing unit, it removes yet another chokepoint, if walkability is what exists over motorized transportation another chokepoint is removed.  Thusly designing and building planning the Arcology itself functions as firewall against destabilization.  No city up to this point has been built entirely on the principle of Arcology, instead they have been built with totalitarianism in mind.

August 1, 2015
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Aquatank,

 Actually we cannot factually say its been tried and failed. Arcosanti has never been finished or even reached its primary population level, and Masdar City is still very much under construction. 

Under the name Archologies no..but under the name projects....yes. You can put whatever name you want on them...they will amount to the same thing.

The only way you can get a project like this one to work is if you kill off all the olde class of people and custom make or program the newly developed...created...programmed people to carry out the program. You have to carryout line one of the Georgia Guidestones.

 

  1. Maintain humanity under 500,000,000 in perpetual balance with nature.
  2. Guide reproduction wisely — improving fitness and diversity.
  3. Unite humanity with a living new language.
  4. Rule passion — faith — tradition — and all things with tempered reason.
  5. Protect people and nations with fair laws and just courts.
  6. Let all nations rule internally resolving external disputes in a world court.
  7. Avoid petty laws and useless officials.
  8. Balance personal rights with social duties.
  9. Prize truth — beauty — love — seeking harmony with the infinite.
  10. Be not a cancer on the earth — Leave room for nature — Leave room for nature 

Archologies is man submitting to nature...not nature submitting to man. Man is subject to nature or if you prefer ...political nature...run amok. Everyone is a stamped out Xerox copy of the program. No independent action or thinking allowed. This is very important because of where I am going to take your reply in your post above.

You can see this clearly if you read your post and then look/compare it to the ten lines in the Georgia Guidestones.

We must remember that Arcology is a combination architecture and ecology not just how a society functions within it.  Without the physical construct we do not have the environmental variables that affect how society functions with in, what we have instead is a history of social problems within a non-Arcology environment.  

 

You are exactly correct here. It is only physical..not spiritual..it does not take into the spiritual nature of men ..historically. It is textbook of todays intellect, Gnosticism, wise men and sophists trying to run things since the garden of eden...by one means or method or another.

What is grossly missing from it is how society functions or does not function...particularly with a people raised on a television and movie education of instant gratification and artificial beliefs.

These kinds of people are very "High Maintenance" with the beliefs and expectations that someone else do the maintenance while they are only there to " Pit Stop." This is what you see in many of todays "Projects." High maintenance  people. And now ..today ...the Projects are being torn down and these people are being moved into the suburbs where they are continuing the high maintenance behaviors...and on the public purse for votes.

To maintain the population of people who can carry out this archology project...you will need to rid the world of some 7.5 to 8 billion people and have only those surviving who can carry out this program while the rest of the earth resets and regrows to its feralness...back to nature state.

When we look at and scientifically critique what has worked and what has not worked, what we find is that social democratic governments with mixed economies work best for the population until they are undermined self serving individuals and small groups of this type of individual intent on accumulating wealth and power.  This undermining is readily apparent in the USA where while it has a democratic republic structure n government it lacks that structure in business. Thusly we have  a disconnect of democracy in government in theory but a totalitarian hierarchy in everyday life that puts its adherents in government, this leads to increasing social, economic, and justice inequality which almost always destabilizes the nation state and can lead to violent civil unrest and internal war.  Nation states that put limits on the on the accumulation of wealth and power and maintain a higher level of democracy have a far better track record.  

This is textbook of todays  "Blame Game" so popular in modern education financed by todays whorish body politic.

Now watch this line of thought you are attempting to get away with and in your very manner...trying to default through as if no one sees it for what it is...the text book blame game of todays pseudo intellects and political hacks.

Here...right here..observe this from your statement .

  what we find is that social democratic governments with mixed economies work best for the population until they are undermined self serving individuals and small groups of this type of individual intent on accumulating wealth and power.

What I need you to do here in backing up your statement is to tell me what law these people are breaking???? What is the law or moral ethical trespass these people have committed. In particular the people you are intent on herding into these Archologies..managed cities...projects. What law have these bad guys you are manufacturing here... broken, violated, or committed???

What law or moral ethical trespass have these people or individuals committed that they should be singled out as some kind of bad person?? I ask this because this is so often used by leadership and public education today in creating or manufacturing a bad guy so that the public will readily get on the bandwagon..herd mentality without thinking ...without information...by emotional manipulation to a cause which may often be not the product advertised.

 

And by the way ...this "Undermining" is readily Apparent in the UK where the thought police are in full force and swing. NO independent unauthorized thought going on  or allowed. Even among school age children. The programming is more readily complete. This is also happening in continental Europe. It is just not being told to most Americans.

The totalitarian hierarchy is more advanced in the UK than it is here in America. Anyone capable of independent thinking knows this. As a Ham radio operator I am often in contact with people in the UK and on the Continent who speak English and they tell me what is going on out there.

  this leads to increasing social, economic, and justice inequality which almost always destabilizes the nation state and can lead to violent civil unrest and internal war. 

This kind of statement is the epitome of todays pseudo intellect...and particularly among SJW's who think no one knows any history. If you read the history of Europe...Young Italy, Young Turks, Young Ireland...and others...you will find the beginnings of an organized movement of SOcial Justice Warriors...SJW's ...over a hundred years ago...and leading to much internal strife in these varous nations. What you also discover if you peel back several layers of the veneer...is Occult forces guiding and managing these movements unto Chaos. Ordo Ob Chao...order from Chaos is the slogan.

You want to hear another one....how about

Liberté, égalité, fraternité, French for "liberty, equality, fraternity"  

 

There is a very severe problem with many of these "Humanist" movements. They are often after the "Scientific" method...bloodbaths..the whole sale killing and slaughtering of millions of people until certain goals are reached. It was just so with the French Revolution where 20% of the French Population was killed off by logic and reason.

It was so in the Russian Revolution...a bloodbath after 1917.

So too in Communist China..millions killed and slaughtered. So too in Cambodia.

Remember something very important and very key. to this all. These nations were nations where science, logic, and reason were worshiped as the way to go.

Yet in these very nations...they wholesale killed off millions of their people.

Not in war per se..but after the wars are over...

This is called Democide or death by ones own government. A totally covered up and avoided history.

This is why I am very cautious about what you are promoting here. Herd mentality.

Thinking people versed in history know this...emoting people do not. For history is often not their strong suit. They just think no one else knows any history so it is easy to get away with it.

So too does todays body politic. They too are betting that no one out here knows any history. Mostly they are correct..but not all of us.

Democide...death by democracy...death by ones own government.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democide

 

Bewarned, All is not on the table where everyone can see it. Bewarned of todays "Blame Game" Techniques.

 

Thanks for your post,

Orangetom

August 2, 2015
5:51 am
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Aquatank
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Okay I'll toy with this, too bad you can't seem to actually deal with more pertinent arguments like which is better utility acess corridors or having the utilities on exterior access panels. Or how much square footage will it need for tropical trees to survive in winter environments (BTW general a person eats 1 whole trees worth of fruit from each type of fruit they eat per year.). Or perhaps addressing the annoyance of trying to get roots of out the hydroponic feed tubes (a good argument for aeroponics). Alas you seem to want to deal with inconsequential subjects that are at a right angle to the arcology proposal to derail the idea.

First of all considering kill whom why, when I'm actually talking about increasing food supplies. Take away all class systems sure, kill its people no. Class cause inequality inequality festers into instability and eventual sytem collapse by allowing the cancer of power &ecomomic elites to exist.

Second of all Frak the Georgia Guidestones they have nothing to do with this. Any crackpot can erect a mounment. I don't even know where whatever crackpot ad that built got 500 Million people from considering the planet currently produce 1.5 times the amount of food it needs for 7 billion people, the problem is distribution. In the arcology system I have proposed the distribution problem is gone.

Third, Arcologies are neither man surrendering to nature or vice versa. Arcologies are humanity becoming symbiotic with nature, instead of destroying like we currently are. Independent thinking is less effective than cooperative thinking, cooperative thinking does not mean people do not independently think it means they share ideas to find the most effective means of problem solving through the discussion of various methods. This is why normal totalitarian buinesses have an over 30% failure rate over and Co-ops (cooperative thinkers) have under a 8% failure rate over 10 years. Once again frak your crackpot's rocks.

Spirituality. You want to get theological on this? Seriously? Here's theology: we're little more than video game avatars for our souls which exist in some other plane, often times we are set on auto pilot. Our users play us to experience something beyond their environment the same way we do. Yes the gods watch us, and play the game too sometime. But is there some great bio-spirtual drive that says I should live outside and suffer the rain, the exposure to the death freezing cold, to be burnt beyond 3 degrees in the sunlight, to strave because I cannot find food. No there isn't. Is there any Human instincts, nope we traded those for intelligence. So why do we live the way we do, because we choose to do so, and we can choose various ways to live. The thing that is most important for Humans survival is adapting to our environment, Arcology is absolutely the number one adaptation, and finding the symbiosis and harmony it creates with the rest of nature provides more spirituality because no longer would we be in competion with it.

You seem to think independent thought is the independence to break the golden rule at every turn. Okay what law do "self serving individuals and small groups of this type of individual intent on accumulating wealth and power?" Plenty, and if you don't know then you haven't read history. War is a racket, murder for profit, these individuals are the profiteers and the puppetmasters. Now I've though a great deal on these folks, and while I'd rather they' die off and go to their eternal suffering in Texas, I think its better to let them choose to stay or to go to come in or stay outside, but if they come in they need to obey the law of the land just like anywhere else. Having a choice like this is not herding. If you think it is you are frakked in the head. If you had read your history you'd know of the Diggers and know even they knew the dangers of wealth and power.
http://www.bilderberg.org/land/poor.htm

One need not throw a violent revolutions to effecxt change that only leads to counter revolutions led by power hungry individuals like Stalin and Mao. One can effect real change without resorting violence so only the opposition uses such murderous tactics before they lose. One does not need to murder, main, or physically hurt someone to win the day. Violence is a display of weakness used by louts who can't use their heads.

I understand, you are trying to find a chink in the science of the arcology proposal by using various debate fallacies (appeal to faith, appeal to tradition, argumentum ad baculum, Overgeneralization, post hoc, ergo propter hoc, red herring, Scare Tactic, Snow Job) I've seen this debate tactic done by a large number of extreme rightwing fanatics. But here is the thing society tends to structure itself/adapt to fit the environment, thats why we have so many different kinds of cultures and societies with different rules and laws, they structure themselves to fit the environment. So complaints about independent thinking or liberties being trampled are the fallacv of scare tactic. Why? Because you don't have a test with this environment yet, You don't have a population sample and you don't have a history sample because no arcology has been built to the necessary population sample size yet. Now I can make predictions, because we have empirical data on exo-arcology environments and their various systems of what has and what has not worked, and when we take into account the amount of resource abundance that is available in the arcology physical design what the data predicts is stabilty. We are not talking about the violent revolutions of places like Russia, China and elsewhere we are talking about something far more simple, not the individual man finds a copse tree and builds a log cabin house, but a tribe finds a fresh water spring and builds a community of homes and lives. Arcology is the newest fresh water spring.

August 2, 2015
1:31 pm
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orangetom1999
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Aquatank,

 Okay I'll toy with this, too bad you can't seem to actually deal with more pertinent arguments like which is better utility acess corridors or having the utilities on exterior access panels. 

I am dealing with the obvious argument..herd mentality verses individuality...individual liberty and freedom.

 First of all considering kill whom why, when I'm actually talking about increasing food supplies. Take away all class systems sure, kill its people no. Class cause inequality inequality festers into instability and eventual sytem collapse by allowing the cancer of power &ecomomic elites to exist.

This has already been done....its was called the Soviet Union..and you can find it in any history book..but it is often and today white washed to hide the nature of it's failures.

The most efficient food distribution system ever devised or distribution/production of any commodity in the world has been capitalism. Capitalism has produced the greatest plenty the world has ever known or ever will know. When capitalism has been controlled and regulated by heavy handed government/socialism it has failed and gone down hill..increased expenses...to everyone. Central planning comittees. Wow!!

That is one of the biggest impediments to progress in the UK...local planning comittees ..for everything. This is news and informations kept from most Americans. But someone is planning to take us down this very road..just like the UK..just like Soviet Russia.

Class struggle...man made created and fabricated class struggle is textbook Soviet Dogma in everything. All I have to do is see that concept ..class warefare...division ..not unity and I know what is going on. A variation of this class warfare..is Social Justice. It is  herd mentality..the ant farm.

 

  Okay what law do "self serving individuals and small groups of this type of individual intent on accumulating wealth and power?" Plenty, and if you don't know then you haven't read history.  Plenty, and if you don't know then you haven't read history

Once again...please name or cite me the law you are claiming or inferring these self serving individuals have broken?? You have not to date told me the name or title..citation of this law. You only infer guilt...imply..but not cite. You are trying to cite or quote a higher morality...a higher principle..but I have not seen or read the name of it.

 

Oh...speaking of individuality...here...this I found very very interesting and historically true...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alP0WiL2P0g

By the way...this video involves one of the original bleeding hearts...social justice warrior...original blame gamers. Phil Donahue. This video was made some 30 plus years ago..and is just a applical today as back then. Perhaps more so. And Milton Freedman quotes the track record of history.

Distorting and misquoting the track record of history has become a favorite past time of todays social engineer as well as leadership today. I know sufficient history to see them doing it from the highest offices in the land..right down to local events.

And the guilt politics which accompany this...the blame game techniques by distorting and misquoting history...is called "Gaslighting." It has become a favorite technique of leadership and public education today.

 

I know this when I see a quote like this one from your post..

  I've seen this debate tactic done by a large number of extreme rightwing fanatics.  

This is textbook of todays SJW's and also politicians looking to create bad guys to bolster and secure their positions.  They cannot, when pressed, explain what law these people have broken when going about their daily lives and private business...but try to imply some greater moral trespass or law broken..violated. The problem is that the oath of office leadership takes....allows people this freedom...to choose to join in or not join in.

People out here who can think for themselves do not want to be herded...they do not want to join in ..but live their individual lives ...not burdened by someone else's beliefs. They do not want to go through their day thinking about rich or poor...gendered or not gendered...black or white..gay or straight...or whatever social justice cause comes up next ..and there will be another one for social justice purposes. Someone will create one..

You are inferring and implying that there is some higher moral and ethical standard going on here but cannot cite the law or trespass these individual people who do not want to go along have broken or violated.

You are operating on a huge legal fiction here and using this implication to pyramid it to greater heights over people...and individuals...and thus promote herd mentality.

 

There are people out here who can see this ..clearly.

 

You still have not cited the higher law or moral trespass these non conformers have broken or violated.

 

Thanks,

Orangetom

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